About this title: After the execution of Socrates in 399 BC, a number of his followers wrote dialogues featuring him as the protagonist and, in so doing, transformed the great philosopher into a legendary figure. Xenophon's portrait is the only one other than Plato's to survive, and while it offers a very personal interpretation of Socratic thought, it also reveals much about the man and his philosophical views. In 'Socrates' Defence' Xenophon defends his mentor against charges of arrogance made at his trial, while the 'Memoirs of Socrates' also starts with an impassioned plea for the rehabilitation of a ...
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Binding: Softcover
Publisher: Penguin Group USA
Date Published: 1990-11-01
ISBN-13:9780140445176ISBN:014044517X
Description: NEW. Softcover. From an inventory that is 100% brand-new, 100% direct from the publishers' distribution channel. We carry NO pre-owned, NO remaindered. We pack in CARDBOARD to ensure the pristine quality is maintained. (Bubble-wrap alone is NOT sufficient to protect from USPS equipment. ) Guaranteed brand-NEW, protected with CARDBOARD, your satisfaction is guaranteed. BKLUVID: 9780140445176. read more
Binding: Paperback
Publisher: Penguin Classics
Date Published: 1990
ISBN-13:9780140445176ISBN:014044517X
Description: New. Brand New! Buy with confidence-your satisfaction is guaranteed at B-Logistics! Due to the large scale of our operation, we do not have access to the specific contents/condition of our items. Please note that Expedited shipping is not available at this time. read more
Binding: Paperback
Publisher: PENGUIN BOOKS LTD Country = UNITED KINGDOM
Date Published: 2004
ISBN-13:9780140445176ISBN:014044517X
Description: BRAND NEW PAPERBACK. 384 pages. (384 pages) after the execution of socrates in 399 bc, a number of his followers wrote dialogues featuring him as the protagonist and, in so doing, transformed the great philosopher into a legendary figure. this title offers insights into the socratic world and into the intellectual atmosphere and life of ancient greece. it reveals much about this man. illustrations (Paperback) read more
Binding: Paperback
Publisher: Penguin Classics
Date Published: 1990
ISBN-13:9780140445176ISBN:014044517X
Description: Acceptable. Former Library Book and/or book has writing/highlighting * If you can deal with the writing/markings, this is a great deal! * read more
Binding: Paperback
Publisher: Penguin Books Ltd
Date Published: 1990
ISBN-13:9780140445176ISBN:014044517X
Description: New. After the execution of Socrates in 399 BC, a number of his followers wrote dialogues featuring him as the protagonist and, in so doing, transformed the great philosopher into a legendary figure. This title offers insights into the Socratic world and i... read more
Edition: Robin Waterfield
Binding: Softcover
Publisher: Penguin Books, UK
ISBN-13:9780140445176ISBN:014044517X
Description: New. An expanded reissue of Hugh Tredennick's translation of Xenophon: Memoirs of Socrates/Symposion. The question Who was Socrates? is addressed, taking account of the different extant literary portrayals of Socrates by writers other than Plato. ISBN10: 014044517X. read more
"Socrates has always been a hero of mine, when the daughters were very young I told them the story of his death and told them that he died asking questions and his death therefore meant their birthright was to be able to ask questions. Both of them still are just as likely to begin a sentence with, "Dad, I've got a question" and both know they will, if they begin a sentence in that way, be guaranteed my undivided attention. Now, after reading this, I think I need to say that Plato's Socrates is my hero.
To be honest, I think I enjoyed the introductions to these four works more than the works themselves. I kept wondering if Plato's works had not survived what would we have made of Socrates. It would seem very unlikely that we would still consider him the central figure at the birth of Western Idealist philosophy if all that was left of him were the descriptions in Xenophon's rather patchy works.
The thing that would have to be removed from his resume - or CV if you prefer - would be his Socratic Method, or the dialectical process of truth through questioning. I was very surprised by how little this was used by Xenophon in any of these works. In fact, Socrates is much too 'preachy' in Xenophon. This was something that was mentioned in one of the introductions, but I really would have noticed this myself.
Think about the things you really know about Socrates. One must be that he asks lots of questions - now, I know, even in Plato those questions are pointed, directed and intended to lead pretty much in one direction - but at least that is how he works. The point of the questioning is that Socrates believes that truth is about 'revealing' - in the sense of showing what is already there to be found to show. To Plato's Socrates one must essentially find information out for one's self. His questions are designed to lead those being questioned towards the truth - towards a kind of uncovering.
Xenophon's Socrates, particularly in the Memoirs (but elsewhere too), talks too much in homilies for my taste. He dispenses wisdom - and often that wisdom is a bit too much like Dr Phil.
The other thing you know about Socrates is that he was the guy who said, "All I know is that I know nothing." Which, of course, is the other explanation for all the questions. This really does not come across in any of the works here. Socrates is presented as a god among men - the sort of man people ought to hang around on the assumption that goodness is in some way contagious.
If Plato's works are sublime, Xenophon's are much more every day. This is even clear in the difference in the English translations given to the titles of the works written by the two authors. Plato writes the Socratic Dialogues, Xenophon the Conversations - Plato writes The Symposium, Xenophon The Dinner Party - Plato The Apology and Xenophon Socrates' Defence. Even though the actual titles given by Plato and Xenophon themselves are the same word in Ancient Greek - the English translations of these titles says much about the substance of the works themselves. I mean, Plato's works deserve to have higher sounding titles than Xenophons.
Stylistically too, Xenophon is no match - but this is really not saying much. Plato is one of the greatest writers of all time. It would be like comparing Pride and Prejudice to some hideous book written by some no hope, second-rater that tells the story of what happened next in the lives of Elizabeth and Fitzwilliam after their marriage. Yes, exactly - it is hard not to make that face when you think about it, isn't it?
What did surprise me, though, was that many of Xenophon's works seemed very much 'patched together'. This was particularly true of the last of the works here - The Estate Manager. This was two works more or less stuck together and the seams do show - almost as much as if the shirt was worn inside out.
Plato's treatment of women is infinitely better than Xenophon's. Hypatia, one of the greatest personages of history and one of my greatest heroes (and as good a reason to hate that particular class of Christians Palin represents as any other) only got to have an education because her father was a Neo-Platonist. Hard to imagine her getting that opportunity if her father had been a Neo-Xenophonian. All the same - Xenophon's treatment of women was much better than, say, Hegel's or so many other philosophers. At least the woman in The Estate Manager was able to learn something.
I have often wondered how much the Socrates in history was like the Socrates in the Dialogues - how much was he a creation of Plato. I guess we will never really know. I am glad that I read these works, because, if nothing else, they make Plato's Socrates seem all the more remarkable.
I was also disappointed that Xenophon had Socrates repeatedly say that one should do good to one's friends, but bad to one's enemies. This is the opposite of what Plato tells us was a core idea of Socrates' philosophy - once again I'm going to have to go with Plato.
Of all the works here, The Dinner Party was probably the best. It was quite delightful in places - particularly when Socrates was explaining why he was better looking than his host. That is the other thing it is important to know about my mate Socrates - he was quite ugly. He had 'a face like a well skelped arse' as they say in Belfast.
It is amusing to think that there are essentially three writers extant who knew and wrote about Socrates and each has such a remarkably different opinion of him - everything from fool through to genius. I am going to have to read The Clouds now by Aristophanes - it can't be helped and ought not to be delayed."
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